Electricity Metering

[john10583]

Residents of Scarsdale Manor may soon be charged for electricity. The logic is that maintenance would be reduced--so those residents who use less electricity would pay less--and those who use more would pay more. The bulk rate would remain, so it would still cost less than the "street price." Con Ed would still send one bill to Scarsdale Manor which would then divide up the total amongst the residents.

Good or bad idea?

[JOEPFLUTE]

Electricity metering sounds complicated and we may not really see any savings. We should spend our time finding ways to cut back on usage. For example, the garage lights should have sensors and the laundry room lights should be on timers or sensors to turn them off when not in use. The garbage room lights stay on 24 hours a day for nothing. Residents should be warned then penalized for running their AC in the winter and charges for AC should be raised seasonally for when we actually use them. We can also look into solar roof panels to produce and store some our own electricity. There are significant government rebates for people who install solar panels and the savings are long term.

[Geoffrey]

Putting solar panels on the roof is a great idea. Has anybody on the board investigated this?

[babybird]

I strongly favor submetering IF there are no shananagins with the rates charged to the owners/residents. Owners/residents should be charged the rate charged to SM by Con Ed plus a SMALL flat service charge. The cost of electricity for the common areas should remain part of the maintenance.

I don't think submetering precludes any one from taking conservation measures. In fact it should encourage such actions.

I agree that we should look into "green" alternatives such as solar panals, planted roofs and other energy reduding tactics. Sometimes one takes action because it is "the right thing" even if it isn't remarkably cost efficient.

[davidfr]

This is a stupid suggestion because there will be NO savings.

Look at the numbers. Let's say the average shareholder uses 250 KW per month and the wholesale charge is 20 cents per KW. This works out to $50 per apartment/per month.

If we reduce the maintenance by this amount and charge residents the wholesale rate--plus an admin fee of 5 cents/KW (total 25 cents) the new charge would be $62.50 per month--or an extra $12.50. If you can cut your usage by 20%, the new fee would be--wait for it--$50, exactly what you paid before. If the rate we are charged is 20 cents/KW and you reduce your usage by 20% the price is $40--hardly worth the spending the money to install the meters to save $10/month.

At the AGM it was mentioned that the cost of installing meters was about $800 per unit--$500 after subsidies, or $150,000 (300 apartments X $500) of our money. This is a GREAT WASTE OF MONEY, that we'll never recover.

If we have a spare $150,000 laying around, I would suggest either buying solar panels and looking at ways to reduce our costs, or simply giving every resident a $500 economic stimulus check like the government.

GET REAL--electricity metering is a distraction and a SCAM.

[Scott]

I agree that we would not save anything. Even if saved $20 a month (unlikely) it is too much work and money for too little return. If we say yes, I bet the cost of electricity and maintenance go up and we'll pay even more than we do if we do nothing. Leave things as they are. Saying everything is included in the maintenance is a big selling point when you sell your apartment.

[Concerned Shareholder]

I am not in favor of sub metering. It will be a huge waste of our money and no doubt the contract to install meters will be given to a brother in law of a board member or Barhite employee. That will follow with a kickback to that individual. I think we need to focus on green energy and reducing our fuel usage or least purchase fuel in bulk at a fixed price. This sub meter thing sounds like more Scarsdale Manor under the table corruption.

[ttc92]

If you look at the actual financial overall outcome of this, there will be no benefit here for any of us. We would never recover from this in either future sale oppurtunties and detailed monthly expenditures. Our interest should be put elsewhere. (i.e. solar panels, roof top patio, garage parking,).
What a shame that this subject has even been mentioned. Who started such a topic and what financial/acct background do they have? Let us all be very hesitant here and everyone learn about the long term outcome. I understand some may feel they are careful to shut off the AC during the day or at night and some turn off the lights e.g., but remember at the end of the year we will not see any obvious changes and it will hurt future sellers of their co-ops.

[yanksfan08]

First,I would like to see how much people could potential save if this is implemented. The reason for the move towards metering I think is that some of the people in the Scarsdale Manor abuse the current system. People leave lights on all night,use highly inefficient lights in their apt or run their AC all day and night even in the winter. The people who converse energy in turn end up paying for the abuses of a small number. Green alternatives would be a great idea but will the cost be worth it?

[jennmac5]

I think that metering the electricity is a big waste of money! I agree with what others have posted. There would be no savings and we would never recover the money it would cost to install the meters! Bad idea.

[Mark]

If we are going to charge for electricity we should also charge for gas and water. It is unfair that people who live alone are forced to subsidize those who have 4 or 5 people in their household. We we are going to charge, let's go all the way. People who live on the ground should not have to pay for the elevator, people who walk out the back door should not pay to look at the gardens, etc, etc. There is simply no end to where this could go.

[Guest]

I think submetering is a good idea. It is being done in new buildings all the time. Why shouldn't people be more responsible for what they consume and not expect others to subsidize them. If the rate stays the same which it will then if you use less then you pay less.
As for the "concerned shareholder" who thinks that the Board or Management are doing this so they can get an under the table benefit, I can only say you are insulting good hard working people who are donating their time and effort to try thier best to make Scarsdale Manor a good place to live. One has to wonder if you think that way because that is what you would do given the chance.

[thomas8]

I agree that submetering is not a good idea. I don't think we will save any money and in the long term it will cost us all.

[southside]

I would love to have some control over my maintenance costs. Also, I am away on business for weeks at a time and don't see why I should be paying for someone else's electricity while I'm away. Yes to submetering.

[onesmallvoice]

To all who think that having electric in your maintenance is a selling point, I ask: is the true selling point the fact that we get a bulk rate or that we have unlimited usage? I would not want someone who is attracted to the all-you-can-eat feature as a neighbor. If they use more than I do, I am paying more than I should. Submetering would even out charges among all shareholders. It is fairer for everyone.

And as for those who don't think it pays, even with the simplistic math (and unrealistic assumptions) used, $10 per month would mean a payback period of only 4 years which is quite reasonable for a capital project. And yes I have an accounting and financial background.

It would reduce the Association's overall energy use which is good for the environment and thus also good for everyone.

Sometimes it's not always about the money, though in this case, I don't see the problem others seem to see. In my view I would still have the selling point of bulk rate electricity, a short payback window after which I will make a monthly profit, freedom from having to pay for others wasteful habits and helping to reduce the co-op's overall energy usage. What more can you ask for in a project?